Member
| ABC/NFP have worked for us.... | Birth Control in the Catholic Church |
| momof3
Member | December 05, 2002, 04:39 PM
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| ABC/NFP have worked for us....
Hello there, I am always interested to hear about individuals experiences with NFP/ABC. So here is mine.... Our precious honeymoon baby was born 10 days short of our 9 month anniversary. We were married for 1 month and were 6 weeks pregnant. Grandma really wondered about that. Actually we were both virgins when we were married and that is truly a gift in our marriage. We really could have been the poster couple for NFP. It was our intention to get pregnant as soon as we could. I've never had an unplanned pregnancy with NFP. I have alot of unnecessary emotional hell and celibacy but no never an unplanned pregnancy. Precious baby #2 was born 22 months later and #3 29 months after that. Whew..Before we hit our 5 year anniversary we had 3 little people!! And they are truly blessings. Too make a long story short. I've had PPD each time and it keeps getting worse. Breastfeeding offers me absolutely NO infertility despite all my kids being totally breastfed. When I'm not complicated by other medical problems I have fertile looking mucus x30 days. After the birth of my 3rd I now have damage to my pelvic floor which causes incontinence and adds to my inability to use NFP. Really this is the shortened version. I have been through NFP instruction and yes before the pelvic floor damage with instruction and a year of using the method my husband and I had 2 days per month where it was even possible to have sex with confidence that we wouldn't get pregnant. That really puts you on the spot, "Honey it's either tonight or we have to wait another 30 days!!" Now, what I find interesting is that still 99% of NFP instructors will NOT admit under any circumstances that an individual is not able to use NFP. It somehow or another is a threat to their livelihood. However, some clergy do acknowledge that NFP is not usable for some couples and reply that celibacy is the answer. My experience with celibacy is that it is just plain strange and not ordained by God or encouraged by God for a married couple. As I said to Kevin earlier...by all means I would throw the condoms out the window in a minute if I could confidently use NFP to avoid a pregnancy. Not out of theological motivation or because I will piously pretend that I am open to conception. (please don't take offense to that statement anyone) Perhaps after I have surgery and recover from PPD I can use NFP again. To be honest with my pastor (as I am a leader in ministry) My husband and I went and told him exactly what was up with us. To my surprise he agreed with us. My intention was not to get approval but just so he would know that I can not represent that Church on this position. I don't necessarily have to be vocal on it in my community either. I don't want to be blacklisted. I've already been told that I am not welcome to discuss this on other Catholic websites. My NFP instructor of course has reamed my pastor out on his position.. Oh well. I've learned alot through all of this and have developed thicker skin from it. The rants and raves of "You contraceptor you are going straight to HELL!!!" are always present. My heavenly Father is the one who will judge that. Peace to all, momof3 momof3 |
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| Editor
Member | December 08, 2002, 04:15 PM
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| Good sharing, mom of 3. Your story raises a perplexing
question that I'd like to hear Paul VI, JSM and others who hang out
here deal with: what are Catholics supposed to do if NFP doesn't work
for them? Just keep having kids for 24 years? Be abstinent all the
time? I'd like to hear some of these smug, anti-ABCers address this
question. You ask about more sharing on this topic. There are other threads on this forum which have experiences. Try here and here. Other sharing is welcomed. |
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| Paul VI
Member | December 08, 2002, 08:09 PM
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| Mom3, I very much recognize your dificult situation,
and it sounds like if you and your spouse could determine more
precisely more days of the month as in-fertile you would follow the
Church's teaching. (My wife and I had a period of time where we too
had >25 days a month as "inconclusive readings." From a husband's
perspective I do know what that is like. Thankfully with a change in
monitoring methods, an answer to prayer, and other changes, that is no
longer the case.) However, in the great 95% who dissent from the
Church's teaching, situations such as yours I bet are the GREAT
MINIORITY. For them it is MY way, I am in CONTROL, NO ONE tells ME what is right or wrong, MY conscience is clear--I can do what I want etc etc etc..... |
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| Editor
Member | December 08, 2002, 09:34 PM
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| For them it is MY way, I am in CONTROL, NO ONE tells
ME what is right or wrong, MY conscience is clear--I can do what I want
etc etc etc..... Explain to us *one more time* if you will why NFP people aren't saying "I am in CONTROL" when it comes to the issue of conception. We're all ears. Re. your characterization of ABC users, you're guilty of: 1. lack of charity 2. judgmentalism 3. misconstruing the conscience issue. But keep 'em coming, P6. Your arrogance about all this is one of the best proofs of the bankruptcy of your arguments. |
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| Paul VI
Member | December 09, 2002, 06:41 AM
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| Editor, maybe start in the CCC then maybe Humanae
Vitea, followed by Casti Connubii. I'm very surprised you are not
familiar with them. P |
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| Editor
Member | December 09, 2002, 08:05 AM
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| Like I said . . . keep 'em coming! |
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| Paul VI
Member | December 09, 2002, 08:52 AM
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| My pleasure!!! But one thing does concern me, you
mentioned arguments, we (I am not anyway) are not arguing anything
here. This is a true, consistent teaching of the Church---no argument.
Again, read CCC, Humanae Vitea, Casti Connubii the early church fathers
etc. If you must sift all church teachings to see if they pass your conscience I image you are one busy editor!!! (And your "handle" of editor is quite appropriate!) But, my guess is that you only sift the teachings you find difficult or you don't feel like following....... |
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| Editor
Member | December 09, 2002, 01:40 PM
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What a delightful chap!  P6, I know you don't agree with much of what James, Momz, me and others have written about the teaching on birth control on this forum, but do you have ANYTHING to say in response to the points made other than to suggest that we're being ignorant, naughty, self-centered boys and girls? You've earned your "Good Catholic Boy" medal now, which I'm sure "The Wanderer" will award you in its Christmas edition, so smile. (Pfoof - nice picture!) If you're not here to do participate in the discussions and make some effort to show the reasonableness of the present teaching, then I'd suggest you hit the road. Implying that we haven't read CCC, HV, CC and other documents is hardly an argument; it's a kind of fallacy, I believe: an argument ad snobeum or something like that. |
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| Jessica
(jessicaem80@hotmail.com) Junior Member | December 09, 2002, 02:58 PM
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| In the "minority"
Here's my experience with ABC vs. NFP, as I have posted elsewhere. I became a Catholic five years ago, just before I turned 18. At that time, I was enthusiastically in agreement with the Church's teaching on birth control, and I was totally committed to following it. For Christmas when I was 20, I requested a book on how to chart fertility, and I began reading up on the matter. I knew that my menstrual cycle had always been abnormal, but everything I read from the Couple-to-Couple League to Toni Wechler said that it didn't matter whether I was irregular or not. To be sure, I followed a doctor's advice on how to regulate it; she recommended using The Pill for about six months to see if that would knock my cycle into regularity, and I did this because I was not married and, therefore, not sexually active, but unfortunately, when I was finished with the Pill, my cycle went back to being irregular. In addition, even when I wasn't on the Pill to try to become regular, I realized that I was having difficulty guaging my body's fertility signs. I was careful to check every day, and I couldn't figure out what I was seeing. "Well, this could be 'eggwhite,' but it's not as dramatic as they make it sound in the books. Maybe it's just 'milky.' No, it's not that, either..." When I went to the doctor again after I got engaged to be married, she told me that there was no way NFP would work for me if my cycle was irregular. Her skepticism echoed that of another doctor in my past. Now I was getting worried. Believe me; I want to have children. I want to have a number of them. I've always wanted to. However, at 22 and as a newlywed just out of college and entering graduate school, there's no way I could provide for children. My husband just graduated as well. I spent many a long night searching the Internet for some hope, some sort of device to help me guage my fertility, but everything was sure to explain that it was useful only to those with regular cycles. Frustrated and afraid, I found this discussion board. I learned about primacy of conscience and degrees of fallibility, and I decided to seek a real-live priest's advice. I went to see a trusted priest and I tearfully asked him what to do. He said that he didn't think I would be in the wrong to use ABC. Two or three priests since then have echoed this response. I am open to life; I'm not saying I never want to have children, and certainly if I became pregnant, my husband and I would do whatever we could to take care of our child. I came to this decision after lots of fretting, praying, and researching. I now use the Pill again [but not until I found research by pro-life doctors that reassured me that this type of blend is not actually abortefecient as some suspect], and I'm glad. My husband and I are working hard to build our new life. I go to school, and he works 50-60 hours a week on average. If I had to try to figure out when I was fertile to keep from getting pregnant, we still might not have made love, and we've been married four months. You can sign me, Concerned ABC User <Jessica> Jessica |
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| Editor
Member | December 10, 2002, 08:55 AM
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| Jessica, what a fine letter that was! Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I don't think there's any doubting your strong sense of morality and your respect for Catholic teaching. You're obviously open to life, only not in each and every sex act (and neither are NFP users, of course). May you and your husband be blessed with healthy children and safe deliveries when you both discern the time is right to conceive. Testimonies like yours, momof3, Sarah, and others shared on this forum belong to the sense of the faithful just as surely as the theological reflections of priests and bishops on this topic. |
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| James
Member | December 10, 2002, 09:20 PM
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| Lack of Charity
Editor, Perhaps you could start deleting any new messages from P6 that relay the same point, subject, insults time and time again. I bet after a while of not seeing his posts on the forum he might actually go out and get a job or something  .
Ok, sorry that was a bit mean spirited, but he grows tiresome. His
interpretation of Church tradition is inherently in error. Regards- |
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| Editor
Member | December 11, 2002, 09:06 AM
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| Agreed!
But he's so typical of the anti-ABC crowd, including tone and "spirit," that I think his posts instructive in their own right. Notice especially how he rarely responds to specific points made to articles he recommends, but only stands back, continually judging ABC users, spouting "read CCC, read HV." All this works to further our cause as much as our well thought-out posts do.  |
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| momof3
Member | December 12, 2002, 03:51 PM
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| momof3
Hello there, I thought I'd keep my experiences on the same thread. Well, due to the serious nature of my post-partum depression issues I had to be hospitalized. Quite scary to wonder if you are going to recover and be able to take care of your beautiful children. My husband and I were given the serious talk by the doc's about this only getting worse everytime and that we should consider not having anymore children. Which is completely devastating to me. On a side note, I read one of Kimberly Hahn's books that includes discussions of NFP. She was sure to include testimonies of women who were told by their doctor's that they would die with another pregnancy but went ahead anyway and heck they were fine. Yes God can work miracles but does our God have common sense???? From what I gather from individuals like PaulVI common sense is not a quality of our God. I have indeed come to the conclusion that their are many individuals in our church whose faith is impoverished. peace, momof3 momof3 |
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| momof3
Member | December 12, 2002, 04:02 PM
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| To Paul VI
P6, In fact, no we are unable to determine more days. Battling severe depression really limits your ability to chart something like NFP especially with all of the medical issues I have. In addition, given the recent events in my life it is obvious to me that I should not be open to conceiving a child for now and possibly forever. The Father I know has alot of common sense and he wants me to use it. Given this situation I have shared with you are you willing to admit that at least in some situations couples need to use ABC??? I no the answer is no for you. Because God forbid one thing is ok'd the whole floodgate of your black and white magisterial world would fall apart. On another note...PaulVI you would be more effective in advocating for NFP if you would just keep your mouth shut and live your life the way God as called you to. If authentic happenings of the Holy Spirit are present and couples observe this then they will certainly want to know more. peace, momof3 momof3 |
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| Paul VI
Member | December 12, 2002, 04:14 PM
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| Again mom3, you mistakenly say that I am pushing NFP.
I AM pushing the teaching of the Church. Your distain is not for me
but for the Church. P |
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| Paul VI
Member | December 12, 2002, 04:19 PM
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| Editor, Susan's post truly breaks my heart. Her post is the fruit of your scandalous work on this anti-Catholic website. I’m sure you take great pride in knowing you have convinced others to follow you into the abyss. May God have mercy. P |
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| Editor
Member | December 13, 2002, 10:10 AM
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| What post would that be, P6? I don't see anything by
Susan on this thread. And if you have a comment for her, address it to
her. As you can see, I don't agree with some of what she posts, either. I notice that you didn't comment on Jessica's post on this thread, nor on my response to that Real Good Article™ by the Monsignor about birth control on that Catholic website you referred us to on another thread. Playing dodge ball with us, are ye? |
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| Paul VI
Member | December 13, 2002, 04:14 PM
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| Editor, you are right, again! I was speaking of Jessica in my previous post. P |
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| momof3
Member | December 13, 2002, 04:32 PM
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| P6
Yes indeed P6 you are advocating for the teachings of the Church and I well I simply advocating for common sense. Disdain for you?? You are so typical of someone who is so militant on this issue. At this point in my thought process on this issue I'm only amused by your ignorance. God calls us to prayerfully consider what the Church teaches and then use the brain He gave us to apply it to our lives. Like I said, I believe you have a very impoverishered view of God. momof3 momof3 |
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| awfltdoc
Member | December 14, 2002, 11:38 PM
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quote: Could you please state what PPD is? I'm not familiar with this abreviation. I'm really not sure how the incontinence interfered with the NFP either? Anthony Waldroup, MD |
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