My experienceBirth Control in the Catholic Church

Frank
November 15, 2002, 09:07 PM
My experience
I want to say to those people who think that NFP and artificial contraception methods are the same, "in my experience, you could not be more wrong."

There was a time at the beginning of my relationship with my wife when we practiced artificial contraception. Intercourse was just something for us to do. God was not a part of it because we were just having fun. It was selfish.

Now my wife and I have been practicing NFP for 10 months. Using NFP means more than just charting, taking temperatures and, analyizing fluids for us. It also means infinately more than trying to space out births. NFP,for us, means submitting to God's plan. It also means being absolutely open to life everytime we have intercourse. Finally, it means learning self-sacrifice and self-denial which we try to "offer up to God" when we chose not to use the fertile periods.
Dad
November 16, 2002, 06:27 PM
Well said, Frank. Welcome to the message board. My wife and I's experience is very much the same as yours (except add a few years of NFP.) We are not very stict followers of NFP however, we don't often let the calender get in the way(!) but generally follow it. Do be prepared to be bashed on this message board, the contraceptors vainly attempt to satisfy their consciences that NFP = ABC and the Church approves NFP so ABC is good. Kind of strange, but you will soon see what I mean. Thanks for your post, I hope you will stop by often!

Dad
Jill
November 16, 2002, 09:10 PM
Song of Songs
Just a question. Why is it necessarily sinful and selfish to "have fun" and only have fun when your having sex with your spouse. This view of sexuality is so blatantly Augustinian it is laughable. The Song of Songs describes our Lords love for his people and their love for Him. It is an utterly erotic love. "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth!..More delightful is your love than wine...My lover is for me a sachet of myrrh to rest in my bosom....On my bed at night I sought him whom my heart loves....His left hand is under my head and his right arm embraces me..." I could go on and on, but obviously this Sacred Scripture emphasizes the goodness of the pleasure in and of itself in married love both physically and spiritually as an illustration of the sacred relationship we have with our creator. There is nothing selfish or sinful about it. To say it is, is to diminish and misunderstand the true meaning of our communion with Our Lord that is experienced through the marital act.
Hugh
(hugh.oregan_NO_SPAM@pobox.com)
Member		November 17, 2002, 10:52 AM
Frank. I see a fallacy in your argument. You were selfish because you and your wife was just having fun? If you believe that the only purpose for having intercourse is for procreation then using ABC might be considered selfish. However, the Church does NOT teach that the only or even the primary purpose of intercourse is for procreation.

Why would you think that you were not being selfish when spacing your intercourse for periods when you did not think your wife would get pregnant? Was that because you think that you are not very good at using NFP. As you got better, and as the method becomes more and more refined your confidence of your wife not conceiving would go up and up. Again would that not make the couple more selfish.

As for submitting to God’s plan. I submit to you that you cannot really know God’s plan.
I also submit to you that those who might use ABC might also be following God’s plan.

Finally, the married couple using ABC to prevent contraception might engage in intercourse as an expression of love and intimacy. If so, it would be a disservice to label that couple as being selfish. After all the expression of love and intimacy is a valid motivation for sexual relations. This also is Church teaching.

Being ‘selfish’ is quite possible when using ABC or NFP methods. It is the motivation for using either method which makes the act selfish or unselfish.

Not everyone will use ABC with a clear conscience nor will everyone use NFP with a clear conscience. The couple should be allowed to decide. It is only the couple who know their motivations. The Church is not in a position to know and therefore should not judge with a blanket condemnation.

coolHugh

Hugh
Editor
Member		November 17, 2002, 02:39 PM
quote:
Now my wife and I have been practicing NFP for 10 months. Using NFP means more than just charting, taking temperatures and, analyizing fluids for us. It also means infinately more than trying to space out births. NFP,for us, means submitting to God's plan. It also means being absolutely open to life everytime we have intercourse. Finally, it means learning self-sacrifice and self-denial which we try to "offer up to God" when we chose not to use the fertile periods.


It's really good to hear testimonials from people who find NFP helpful. Truly, I mean that. I'm glad this has been such a good experience for you and your spouse.

Please note, however, the thread on this forum started by Sarah. There are testimonials there which give witness to a completely opposite experience. This was also the case when the Crowley's interviewed over 3,000 couples during the time when the Birth Control Commission was meeting. I daresay you'll find that most couples would say they find that ABC brings many more advantages to their relationship than NFP does. They are able to communicate with each other, develop intimacy, set periods of abstinence and even decide when to stop to become pregnant without having to use NFP. Just a thought.

I'm also wondering, Frank, if you will explain to us how, for you, NFP "means being absolutely open to life everytime we have intercourse." How are you being open to life when you're choosing to have intercourse only during those times of the month when you're reasonably sure a conception won't take place? Why coudn't an ABC user claim this same "openness?" Perhaps Dad can help you out with that one, since he's cheering you on so warmly! wink
Carol
November 17, 2002, 03:25 PM
Frank wrote:

There was a time at the beginning of my relationship with my wife when we practiced artificial contraception. Intercourse was just something for us to do. God was not a part of it because we were just having fun. It was selfish.

Frank,

Just wanted to make a few brief comments on your
comments. "Just having fun" is definitely an excellent reason for married couples to have sex.
The clitoris is solely for this purpose....and it was created by God, of course. Having fun can promote the unitive aspects of your marriage.
It can draw you and your wife into untold depths of intimacy as you realize the pure beauty of your physical oneness in God. It surely isn't selfish, unless you make it so. Giving each other pleasure can be joyous and joyful...besides being healthy and stress reducing.

A theology that maintains that women should not have sex during the time of the month when they can be most desirous of it, is cruel and insensitive. Then, telling couples that they should not fill their so called times of abstinence with other acts of physical intimacy like mutual masturbation or oral sex, which some still maintain are sinful, is not grounded in the beauty of the physical experience between husband and wife.

Enjoy your love making. Let your guilt at the bedroom door.

Carol
Frank
November 17, 2002, 03:26 PM
Openness to Life
Editor,
To answer your question, we are open to new life in principle. Of course we know we are probably not going to conceive, but we are not desiring not to conceive. We allow it to be possible, that if God for some reason supernaturally caused my wife to ovulate during the infertile period, the child God wills to live would come into existence. This is something that ABC couples can never do. They are always presenting a type of barrier to the supernatural abilities of God.
Frank
David
(derceg_NO_SPAM@cord.edu)
Junior Member		November 17, 2002, 04:09 PM
So, Frank. God can overcome the effects of natural hormones, but he can't overcome the effect of artificial ones? Sounds blasphemous to me!

David
Frank
November 17, 2002, 10:21 PM
David,
Of course if God wants to overcome artificial barriers he can. The point is that an ABC couple is clearly telling God (by using ABC) that they do not want his interference, whereas an NFP couple is not. An NFP couple is saying "We would like to avoid a pregnancy if it is your will God, but we won't put anything in your way in case your will is for us to conceive." Instead an ABC couple tells God not to interfere and at the same time puts up a barrier to His will with the intention of saying, "We're not particularly concerned with what your will is. Furthermore, if it is different from ours will be absolutely certain to take precautions to avoid your will." I think that makes a pretty clear distinction between ABC and NFP.
Frank
Jessica
(jessicaem80@hotmail.com)
Junior Member		November 18, 2002, 12:28 AM
Frank,

I really don't see how you can generalize what an ABC couple or an NFP couple is "clearly" saying to God. I would say that it's perhaps more likely that a Christian couple who avoids pregnancy by using either NFP OR ABC might be saying to God, "We don't think this is the right time to conceive, and so we are avoiding pregnancy at this time. However, God, because I believe in You and love Your will, if you should choose to allow our method of contraception to fail, we will lovingly and graciously accept Your gift." According to the statistics offered by NFP researchers, it's just as likely that NFP will succeed in avoiding pregnancy as it is that the Pill will, so both seem to be putting up the same statistical barrier to God. However, a Christian couple in any case will lovingly accept their child, don't you think?

I realize this is a Catholic message board, and I myself am Catholic, but there are plenty of Protestants who use ABC. Many of these are people committed wholly to doing God's will but who have never even entertained the idea that ABC might be wrong. Does their use of ABC indicate that in fact they have wrenched the will of their lives from God and are selfishing hoarding it for themselves?

Jessica